WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:19.840 Thank you for coming for our session. We will be talking about the power to the public 00:19.840 --> 00:24.460 stack governing Europe's digital commons, specifically talking about the newly established 00:24.460 --> 00:28.920 digital commons' edict. I don't need to go over, I think, what will need to be 00:29.000 --> 00:32.840 needed many times in this room, but we know that digital sovereignty is on the 00:32.840 --> 00:37.920 cards, there's a lot of political momentum around it, and we think that open 00:37.920 --> 00:42.920 source, but specifically digital commons are the way forward. So talk briefly 00:42.920 --> 00:46.920 about the work that we do and then like pass it on to Leia and Emma and then 00:46.920 --> 00:50.920 we get into the edict, but I wanted to kind of set some context around where we 00:50.920 --> 00:55.920 think the edict can play some important roles for the ecosystem. So the work that we do 00:55.920 --> 01:02.420 at open future and as partly and supported by the NGI commons consortium, we think of 01:02.420 --> 01:06.420 digital commons as the way forward, digital commons in the sense not just the technical 01:06.420 --> 01:10.820 artifacts and the licensing around open source, but the communities and the practices 01:10.820 --> 01:15.620 of governing that sustain these infrastructures. So we want to put forward a progressive 01:15.620 --> 01:21.620 vision, both of digital sovereignty, not based on the regionalistic or nationalistic 01:21.620 --> 01:26.920 interpretations, but also a progressive, progressive vision of the commons, and we 01:26.920 --> 01:30.720 think enough people in this room will recognize that open source is the way forward 01:30.720 --> 01:36.720 in terms of a more resilient form of sovereignty. So that's why we advocate for this 01:36.720 --> 01:41.320 framing of the digital commons, not just as a way to move away from a dependence on 01:41.320 --> 01:46.520 American technologies, but moving away entirely from proprietary and extractive ecosystems. 01:46.520 --> 01:53.920 So as part of this work, we've been Jordan, if I can. Just one back. As part of this 01:53.920 --> 02:01.120 work, we're looking at a few different ideas and a few different sort of policy interventions 02:01.120 --> 02:05.420 that erick being one of them, but we're also looking broadly at how we build, how we fund, 02:05.420 --> 02:11.420 and how we govern technologies. So this looks like aligning the broader research and innovation, 02:11.420 --> 02:15.220 funding architectures that we have to sort of the dynamics and the realities of the digital 02:15.520 --> 02:19.720 commons. So this also looks like funding critical infrastructures, that funding commons 02:19.720 --> 02:26.420 that underlie critical infrastructures, but also looking at the choices that are made upstream 02:26.420 --> 02:31.920 that shape technology trajectories downstream across the European Union and how public 02:31.920 --> 02:36.720 funding is channeled towards funding research and innovation. We're also looking at 02:36.720 --> 02:40.620 procurement as a way to generalize investments strategically towards open source 02:40.720 --> 02:45.420 digital commons, but also thinking about that as a market shaping tool and as a way as someone 02:45.420 --> 02:50.820 in the previous panel also said to make sure that procurement practices also make sure that the 02:50.820 --> 02:55.720 ecosystem itself remains sustainable and that we don't have extractive forms of procurement from 02:55.720 --> 03:01.320 open source and the commons. So as part of these interventions, we're also looking at cloud 03:01.320 --> 03:05.820 and social media because we recognize that these are all elements that are important 03:05.920 --> 03:10.720 back to us with threats to sovereignty. And finally, I think moving on to the digital commons 03:10.720 --> 03:17.520 ELEC and this is where I will pass on to I think Leia first where we think that where we want 03:17.520 --> 03:23.020 to discuss how the role that the digital commons ELEC can play in terms of its stewardship 03:23.020 --> 03:27.920 of the community and support for the open source ecosystem. So our interventions today, 03:27.920 --> 03:32.520 I think are primarily about sort of opening up the floor towards questions from the community 03:33.020 --> 03:38.020 and understanding how this architecture can kind of interface with all of the stakeholders 03:38.020 --> 03:42.520 that have an interest in it. So that I'll pass on to Leia. 03:45.020 --> 03:49.520 Thank you. I see if we can turn this into kind of might we can pass around. 03:49.520 --> 03:52.520 Yeah, like that. 03:52.520 --> 04:03.520 Okay, hi everyone. I'm Leia Biaman. Thanks for the kind introduction. I'm from Zendus 04:03.520 --> 04:08.520 from the German Center for Digital sovereignty. To those of us, to those of you who don't 04:08.520 --> 04:15.020 know us, we are a state-owned company, we are kind of associated with the German digital 04:15.020 --> 04:21.520 ministry and our main mission is to make sure that the public sector is less dependent 04:22.020 --> 04:28.520 on individual IT providers. There was a study conducted a few years ago that showed that 04:28.520 --> 04:33.520 the German public sector, but not only the German, I suppose, is very dependent on just a few 04:33.520 --> 04:41.520 IT providers and this is very risky, of course. So we were set up as an entity to do something 04:41.520 --> 04:48.520 about that. We offer open source solutions alternative solutions to the public sector, but we also 04:48.520 --> 04:55.520 take care of securing software supply chains, for example. I could have a look at open code 04:55.520 --> 05:02.520 for that. So that's what we do. From the beginning, from the very beginning, it was very clear 05:02.520 --> 05:08.520 to us that what we do, it doesn't stop at the borders of Germany. The problems we are dealing 05:08.520 --> 05:15.520 with, they go beyond Germany. We need to look to Europe and cooperate with other European countries 05:15.520 --> 05:24.520 to really achieve our mission. So in 2024, we started collaborating with France, with 05:24.520 --> 05:34.520 Denim, MRC, from Denim. So we go way back to use back. So we started collaborating in 2024, 05:34.520 --> 05:39.520 and then a little later, the Netherlands joined the Netherlands, Ministry of the Interior joined 05:39.520 --> 05:47.520 and we had this three-way collaboration, and we've been doing mostly what we call 100-day 05:47.520 --> 05:58.520 challenges. So we collaborate on several projects ranging from AI and video conferencing to 05:58.520 --> 06:04.520 also things really also collaborating on how we want to collaborate. So we also published guidelines 06:04.520 --> 06:10.520 for example on how to do that, and we worked together on docs. We're just quite well known, 06:10.520 --> 06:17.520 I think, note taking application to integrate in our various work space solutions. So we've been doing 06:17.520 --> 06:25.520 lot of good things, but also, I think we noticed that we'd like to scale, we'd like to involve more 06:25.520 --> 06:32.520 partners in our collaboration, and the question is, how can we do that? Because we also notice that it 06:32.520 --> 06:39.520 takes work to work together, a lot of effort, and money and resources that people, and I hope 06:39.520 --> 06:47.520 really for this unique is that it can make this collaboration easier, it can help us scale. 06:47.520 --> 06:54.520 I think of it as a kind of tent that we can put up to give us shelter, to give us funding 06:54.520 --> 07:01.520 and people, and maybe also a strategy and some common ground rules for collaborating, and then 07:01.520 --> 07:08.520 from there we have, or in the kind of tent we have the same space to collaborate and involve more partners. 07:08.520 --> 07:17.520 We've been involved in the EDIC as a kind of project partner of the digital ministry to help implement these projects. 07:17.520 --> 07:23.520 That's my little vision for the EDIC and I'll pass it on to Emma with that. 07:23.520 --> 07:30.520 Thank you, Leo. Hello, everyone. So there is no my picture on the slides, so just a short introduction 07:30.520 --> 07:40.520 to heal my ego today. So I'm in charge of the French Ospo, which is located at the Newman 07:40.520 --> 07:46.520 France. We're having lots of activities in this Ospo, which I will be really happy to talk to you 07:46.520 --> 07:54.520 about in another discussion, and I'm in charge with the cabinet of our director to follow this topic, 07:54.520 --> 07:59.520 which is about the EDIC, and I had the pleasure to work on the topic starting like about 07:59.520 --> 08:06.520 24 months ago, which is not so long, because I don't know if there are some people who in the room 08:06.520 --> 08:13.520 participated in the very early days of the EDIC construction. At this time it was a foundation for digital comments, 08:13.520 --> 08:22.520 because during the French presidency of the EU back in 2022, and there were lots of consultations 08:23.520 --> 08:30.520 with the actors to ask to the communities exactly what you said. I mean, you said we need collaboration 08:30.520 --> 08:46.520 as member states, but communities need also to give, I mean, to express what they need, so that the EDIC can be also constructed with what they think is important. 08:46.520 --> 08:56.520 So there were lots of talking, and a few years later, work actually accelerated a lot, 08:56.520 --> 09:06.520 because we had a little issue. We started understanding that in a long wider policy-makers circle 09:06.520 --> 09:12.520 about our digital sovereignty, because the political context changed, and we thought, oh, 09:12.520 --> 09:20.520 maybe we need to regain some digital sovereignty about, I mean, or public stack, and what we believe 09:20.520 --> 09:28.520 with Zendes and with other EDIC, DC-edic partners, is that sovereignty should be open, 09:28.520 --> 09:34.520 some sovereignty is not something that you restrain to the borders of France, to the borders of Europe, 09:34.520 --> 09:40.520 it should not be closed, it should be open to communities and open with open source. 09:40.520 --> 09:51.520 And this is basically the history behind the digital commons' edict, so what is the edict is about 09:51.520 --> 10:00.520 regaining digital sovereignty with the help of digital commons. We will probably not reach open digital sovereignty 10:00.520 --> 10:07.520 if we do not have a strong digital commons ecosystem. And so very concretely, 10:07.520 --> 10:17.520 the edict was designed to address two things. The first is to strengthen the work on supply, 10:17.520 --> 10:21.520 what we call supply. So let's think it's all of a market to simplify things, 10:21.520 --> 10:29.520 so you have supply of digital commons. And behind that, this is code, this is people, very important, 10:29.520 --> 10:39.520 and the edict will be providing guidance, expertise, funding, expertise which can be legal, 10:39.520 --> 10:45.520 which can be, I mean, as many kinds of expertise this is needed to really strengthen 10:45.520 --> 10:54.520 this digital commons project, but it's good to have supply, right? It's good to reinforce the capacity of people 10:54.520 --> 11:03.520 to develop good projects. It's also very important to work on demand, because in my opinion, 11:03.520 --> 11:09.520 this is my opinion, right? We really need to work on demand. Who is demanding digital commons now? 11:09.520 --> 11:17.520 It's so much easier to just buy as an enterprise or as a government solution that's 11:17.520 --> 11:26.520 proprietary. And it's safe, not as much right now, and people are starting to realize it. 11:26.520 --> 11:35.520 But it's so we need to also work to really advocate, among with lots of people who are doing it here. 11:35.520 --> 11:40.520 I know in the room partners, I know the Open Forum Europe is doing that. 11:40.520 --> 11:45.520 And this is doing that many people between it also to coordinate that, and to really keep doing this, 11:45.520 --> 11:53.520 so that we can also shape the capacity of public agents in the administration of people and enterprises 11:53.520 --> 12:02.520 to really realize that this is important to also use digital commons tools. And the edict can be a tool, 12:03.520 --> 12:11.520 will be a tool to coordinate also this energy that many people are already doing at the, 12:11.520 --> 12:16.520 I mean, in several organizations to work on this. 12:16.520 --> 12:24.520 So this is basically work on demand, work on supply, and develop programs and activities with communities, 12:24.520 --> 12:30.520 with members to do that. So the edict is basically a tool for member states. 12:30.520 --> 12:35.520 I mean, for members of the DC edict, which can only be a member states, as we will see just later. 12:35.520 --> 12:40.520 But it's also a home for projects and a home for digital commons. 12:40.520 --> 12:48.520 And this is how it was built from the very beginning, and this is, we hope, how it will continue to be built in the future. 12:48.520 --> 12:53.520 So we can switch to the set set, just because I don't, I want to leave some room for, 12:53.520 --> 13:01.520 come in, so I hope you, yeah, yeah, exactly, thank you. 13:01.520 --> 13:06.520 So this drawing was actually made by the diplomats. 13:06.520 --> 13:10.520 So please forgive, I mean, give us mercy for this, right? 13:10.520 --> 13:15.520 I know it's very bad, and we will probably work to improve it. 13:15.520 --> 13:18.520 But yeah, you know, diplomats are not so good at drawing. 13:18.520 --> 13:21.520 So what's important here is the information that is on screen, 13:21.520 --> 13:23.520 and that I will try to also explain. 13:23.520 --> 13:26.520 A little was behind all these words. 13:26.520 --> 13:29.520 So this is the edict's governance, 13:29.520 --> 13:35.520 seen by a diplomat, who gave so much to the project, so I don't want to burden him too much. 13:35.520 --> 13:43.520 So you can see here, that's, it's the first time, actually, that we disclose this information, how does it work? 13:43.520 --> 13:49.520 Because it wasn't believable for us, now that the edict has been created back in November, 13:49.520 --> 13:55.520 not to talk at first, about this, because I mean technical communities, communities, of course, 13:55.520 --> 13:59.520 are, I guess, eager, you know, more about how this will function. 13:59.520 --> 14:08.520 So this is kind of the writing of the rules of how it works, 14:08.520 --> 14:14.520 and then I guess the functioning will probably evolve when it's actually operational. 14:14.520 --> 14:20.520 What's important to understand is that the main body of the edict is the assembly of members. 14:20.520 --> 14:23.520 So who can be member, member states? 14:23.520 --> 14:28.520 And only member states, I'm sorry to tell you this. 14:28.520 --> 14:37.520 And right now, there are four member states, which are members, five member states, which are members, 14:37.520 --> 14:45.520 so friends Italy, Netherlands, Germany, and Luxembourg, which joined recently, and we're really happy of this. 14:45.520 --> 14:52.520 And we have another category of persons who participate in what could be seen as an administration consult. 14:52.520 --> 14:58.520 So I don't know if you are involved in NGOs and enterprises, you have administration consult. 14:58.520 --> 15:04.520 So basically, assembly of member is the governing supreme body of the edict. 15:04.520 --> 15:08.520 But it also can welcome observers. 15:08.520 --> 15:12.520 So right now, we have observers, which are mainly member states. 15:12.520 --> 15:16.520 So there is, and there I will need your help there. 15:16.520 --> 15:22.520 There is Poland, there is Slovenia, there is, I should have noted that. 15:22.520 --> 15:28.520 Maybe someone knows in the room, but we have like, some member states, which are observers, 15:28.520 --> 15:33.520 but my memory is really bad as I didn't skip so much over the past days. 15:33.520 --> 15:39.520 And please forgive us if you are a member state observer and not cited. 15:39.520 --> 15:43.520 You also can have municipalities. 15:43.520 --> 15:48.520 So let's say, city of Barcelona, may one to join as an observer. 15:48.520 --> 15:50.520 You can have regions. 15:50.520 --> 15:57.520 So let's say, Shlesbik Holstein, in Germany, could join as an observer. 15:57.520 --> 16:00.520 This is a possibility that is opened by the status. 16:00.520 --> 16:04.520 And obviously also the European Commission is an observer. 16:04.520 --> 16:09.520 So basically, when you are an observer, you can observe, meaning you can give your opinion. 16:09.520 --> 16:12.520 You can participate to activities. 16:12.520 --> 16:19.520 You can attend these administration consult meetings, but you cannot vote. 16:19.520 --> 16:20.520 And that's it. 16:20.520 --> 16:23.520 And in exchange, you don't pay anything, you just observe. 16:23.520 --> 16:30.520 So this is the main body, which will actually be really, it's not really important body, 16:30.520 --> 16:36.520 because it's, I mean, the assembly of members is in charge of setting up the 16:36.520 --> 16:39.520 ADC activities, hiring the director, et cetera. 16:39.520 --> 16:43.520 So now second thing is, there is an adversary board. 16:43.520 --> 16:51.520 So the adversary board provides expertise and guidance to the member states, SMD. 16:52.520 --> 16:57.520 So if I quote the status, this is an equitable distribution of stakeholders, 16:57.520 --> 17:01.520 whose expertise in the field is relevant to digital comments, et cetera. 17:01.520 --> 17:06.520 So it may be obviously people from the community. 17:06.520 --> 17:13.520 And there will be a process that will be set up to select these experts, 17:13.520 --> 17:20.520 which will be nominated for two years to advise the assembly of members. 17:20.520 --> 17:23.520 And finally, there are ad hoc committees. 17:23.520 --> 17:28.520 So this is a working group, so I will not take too much time to speak about it. 17:28.520 --> 17:29.520 They can be set up. 17:29.520 --> 17:33.520 If there is a need to design a program, there is a need to design a text. 17:33.520 --> 17:39.520 If there is a need to organize an event, it's very basically a working group. 17:39.520 --> 17:48.520 And it can be mixed with people from the communities and people who are institutional stakeholders. 17:48.520 --> 17:53.520 So these are the main, let's say, it's governance structures. 17:53.520 --> 17:55.520 So I hope this is a bit clearer. 17:55.520 --> 17:58.520 Actually, it's quite classic. 17:58.520 --> 18:01.520 And there is another one thing which is super important. 18:01.520 --> 18:04.520 And it's in the states, although it's not a governance body. 18:04.520 --> 18:07.520 It's the DCID community network. 18:07.520 --> 18:11.520 So the fact that it lies, it is in the states, 18:11.520 --> 18:16.520 shows that there will probably be no strong edict, 18:16.520 --> 18:19.520 without a strong community. 18:19.520 --> 18:24.520 And this is what it means to have a DC community network in the states. 18:24.520 --> 18:28.520 And the edict will be in charge of working 18:28.520 --> 18:33.520 to ally with the community networks. 18:33.520 --> 18:38.520 That work on digital commands that develop digital and maintain digital commands 18:38.520 --> 18:42.520 to organize events, organize activities, participate to it. 18:42.520 --> 18:46.520 Because I mean, the edict is working at the EU scale. 18:46.520 --> 18:48.520 And if we want to achieve a greater impact. 18:48.520 --> 18:54.520 So I really try to help the European Union member states, 18:54.520 --> 18:56.520 municipalities, etc. 18:56.520 --> 19:00.520 Regain digital sovereignty with the help of digital commands. 19:00.520 --> 19:06.520 Then we really need the community to do it and to spread all of our Europe to participate 19:06.520 --> 19:08.520 and conduct activities. 19:08.520 --> 19:10.520 So this is also something. 19:10.520 --> 19:16.520 So the DC community network, so it's written events held on a regular basis. 19:16.520 --> 19:19.520 I don't think it should be only events. 19:19.520 --> 19:23.520 And it's not in the states, it's this word event. 19:23.520 --> 19:26.520 So I guess it will be a little larger than just events. 19:26.520 --> 19:29.520 But this was a very quick introduction. 19:29.520 --> 19:35.520 And I think necessary introduction also to be transparent with the community with what is happening now. 19:36.520 --> 19:41.520 At the EU level on the digital commands edict to inform you about this. 19:41.520 --> 19:45.520 And we welcome with Lea and I did your questions. 19:45.520 --> 19:47.520 Thank you. 19:59.520 --> 20:04.520 So I choose who I can choose. 20:04.520 --> 20:08.520 So maybe we can do a rule which is one woman, one man. 20:08.520 --> 20:10.520 So Lea is also you can raise your hands. 21:05.520 --> 21:08.520 And there you can raise your hands. 21:08.520 --> 21:11.520 So I think this is one. 21:11.520 --> 21:12.520 So I think this is one. 21:12.520 --> 21:18.520 It will be second. 21:18.520 --> 21:20.520 You don't have to ask me. 21:20.520 --> 21:22.520 I spoke a lot about this. 21:24.520 --> 21:26.520 Yeah, I mean it's a difficult question. 21:26.520 --> 21:28.520 I need to ask them time to think about it. 21:28.520 --> 21:30.520 But let me try. 21:30.520 --> 21:33.520 Well, I mean we have this mechanism of becoming observer first. 21:33.520 --> 21:38.160 of our first. And I think this is, I mean, first step you can take. So I would recommend 21:38.160 --> 21:46.240 doing that. It's free of charge, if you will. So you can do that. And then, well, I think 21:46.240 --> 21:52.240 personally my advice would be to give us some time to actually set up the idea. I mean, 21:52.240 --> 21:56.960 it's been launched, but we're still waiting for the first employees for projects to kick 21:56.960 --> 22:03.760 off and things like that. And I think from there we can gain more momentum and really show 22:03.760 --> 22:09.040 that it's worth joining the e-dick. And if you are observed by them already, then attending 22:09.040 --> 22:14.880 meetings and events and there will be more of that. Then I hope it can be very convincing 22:14.880 --> 22:20.960 to join us as a full member. I think that's all I can say. And we've been working together 22:20.960 --> 22:26.560 with friends with the Netherlands, the Ministry of the Interior. And we've had these challenges 22:26.560 --> 22:30.640 build stuff. And I think that's been very, very convincing. I hope. 22:32.640 --> 22:38.080 We should ask Luxembourg because they just joined the e-dick. And I'm sure they have good 22:38.080 --> 22:44.960 reasons for this. But I fully agree with you. Once there will be activities launched, 22:45.760 --> 22:50.720 community activities, funding activities, supporting activities. Then I guess it will also make 22:50.720 --> 22:56.240 more sense because if you are the government of Poland and you have, I mean, you have such a strong 22:56.320 --> 23:01.120 open source ecosystem in Poland. You now have a strategy. You now have people in the government. 23:01.120 --> 23:07.600 I know who support this strategy at a high level, which is really amazing. Then if you have the 23:07.600 --> 23:13.120 addition of the right people, plus interesting activities, I guess it can be a help. But my personal 23:13.120 --> 23:19.280 opinion is also that we need people in the countries, open source and digital common communities 23:19.280 --> 23:25.280 in the countries to take part to this discussion through Evan, to also ask their policy makers 23:25.360 --> 23:30.400 and their political decision makers to make a move. And let's be honest, the context is 23:30.400 --> 23:35.360 helping now, which is great. I mean, we have no opportunity because planners are aligned. 23:37.600 --> 23:40.480 Okay, that we think this work is done seem to work. 23:42.320 --> 23:48.720 Splendid. Dirk from Gullick, a part of our foundation. So a lot of the things this 23:48.800 --> 23:54.480 edict and also the digital commons are trying to address, I think, are our issues of 23:54.480 --> 24:02.080 governance, of policy, of industrial policy, of sovereignty, of all sorts of things industry and 24:02.080 --> 24:07.040 society needs to fix. There are no technical issues at all. We've got the technology everything 24:07.040 --> 24:11.520 else. We're here now in a room with lots of engineers. I mean, we write code. We fix things. 24:12.320 --> 24:18.160 What is it that you're really expecting from us? Like what is expected basically? 24:18.160 --> 24:21.360 Because these problems sound very long, technical to me. 24:26.240 --> 24:35.360 If I take MasterDun, so we know we have a problem of cognitive influence by US platforms that are 24:35.360 --> 24:40.800 or Chinese platform that are social networks on or youth and all populations. So we need 24:41.120 --> 24:48.880 sovereign, open community, community alternatives to this. And the DC edict does not build this. 24:50.240 --> 24:56.640 You build it and you build it greatly and probably that you need some help from policy makers 24:56.640 --> 25:04.160 to build it better. If I take an example, send from the government, one problem that we are 25:04.160 --> 25:12.400 having with that kind of platform is user experience. I know it's not a 100% engineer thing, 25:12.400 --> 25:20.000 but I mean, it's a second problem is moderation. So I think that engineers should also, 25:20.000 --> 25:27.760 I mean, we will succeed if there are a diversity of persons working on digital commons on a 25:27.760 --> 25:35.600 pan on a stream that goes from policy makers to UX designers and in between people who are 25:35.600 --> 25:41.520 up for moderation, translation, et cetera. So I emphasize a little on this, but I mean, 25:41.520 --> 25:48.880 they are very good American or Chinese products or whatever private products, proprietary products 25:48.880 --> 25:54.480 that are so good because they are diverse people working on it. So this would be my answer, 25:54.480 --> 25:59.440 not really an answer, but I would expect you to work more widely with a diverse studio of experts 25:59.440 --> 26:02.320 and stakeholders, hopefully with or help. 26:04.720 --> 26:09.200 Yeah, maybe I can just quickly add to that because I realize that what we've been talking about 26:09.200 --> 26:16.240 sounds very policy oriented and high level at times, but going back to those 100-day challenges 26:16.240 --> 26:21.760 where we actually actually build products and build software during these challenges. And we did that 26:21.840 --> 26:27.120 together with the block-note people, for example, so we've been working on docs together. 26:27.120 --> 26:33.360 So you know, we are building technology, we need engineers to do that and to really help us with that. 26:34.560 --> 26:37.280 And yeah, so we need all of you. 26:38.960 --> 26:42.480 If you believe you're underrepresented and you have a question, please raise your hand. 26:42.800 --> 26:50.640 And we have somebody? Yes? Yes, we'll go up there. 26:57.440 --> 27:00.880 Thank you. I am not underrepresented, I'm just a male. 27:03.680 --> 27:11.120 No, I might sound a little bit harsh with my series of questions, but allow me to make a few 27:11.120 --> 27:20.560 questions instead of just one. Looking at this graph, I see that a lot of these advisory boards 27:20.560 --> 27:28.400 are observers, which no participation knows say in it. The assembly of members is basically just 27:28.400 --> 27:37.200 member states. So by implicitly, it's governments and these governments are being reelected. 27:37.280 --> 27:43.440 Every single four years, five years, and they are subject to change of vision. 27:44.400 --> 27:50.160 Also in case of censorship and what is being allowed into the public thinking. 27:52.480 --> 27:58.960 We see the examples perfectly overseas. We might have just merely missed that chance in France 27:58.960 --> 28:04.640 with Martin in the pen and so on. Mike, it's a little bit comfortable to please allow me 28:05.520 --> 28:14.960 a little bit to track it all. So my question to you is how do other non-governmental entities have 28:16.960 --> 28:24.960 certain power and means of directing this edict? I'm lacking the participation of for example in 28:24.960 --> 28:32.640 NGOs, government and event entities like UNICEF and Human Rights Initiative and the EFF. 28:34.560 --> 28:43.760 And also, lastly, it looks a lot like the community network and the ad hoc boards and events 28:43.760 --> 28:50.000 the ones that actually do the work have to do all the work and no participation in it. So how are 28:50.080 --> 29:00.960 you going to solve that? I just had this, I don't want to address the changing government 29:00.960 --> 29:08.640 and how that can be difficult. Because I think what we've seen is that it can also be 29:09.360 --> 29:15.680 quite an advantage because we have different election cycles and sometimes one government needs to 29:15.680 --> 29:21.840 be convinced, again, after a re-election, we have a new government and maybe need to convince them 29:21.840 --> 29:28.080 that this is worth doing. But then during that time, the other partners can carry on projects. 29:28.080 --> 29:34.640 So this has been really helpful. But about including other actors and not just governments, 29:34.640 --> 29:39.280 I think there will be a lot more happening in that space in the middle, as I mentioned, 29:39.280 --> 29:49.600 and not just events, but we will establish mechanisms for feedback also. So just thank you for 29:49.600 --> 29:54.480 a question because this is exactly the kind of feedback that we love to have. So thanks. 29:56.240 --> 30:07.440 One thing I would add to what Leah said is that it's a tool from Member States to coordinate public 30:07.440 --> 30:16.800 policies at the European level to support digital comments. And I mean, let's not hide. 30:16.800 --> 30:26.160 This is, I mean, the statuses have been built in this direction. And it will probably remain 30:26.160 --> 30:32.800 so, but as you can see also, we will conduct the work with the communities in a way that 30:33.520 --> 30:39.760 it's an open-house for digital comments, an open-home for digital comments. So I think that I mean, 30:39.760 --> 30:47.840 there are already many community foundations that, I mean, where the communities can participate 30:47.840 --> 30:52.960 in a very different way. And the positioning of this edict is slightly different in the sense. 30:52.960 --> 30:59.680 So I will not tell you, it's a tool designed by a community's for communities. No, it's been designed 30:59.760 --> 31:08.080 by member states with the help of communities to serve the purpose of supporting digital sovereignty 31:08.080 --> 31:14.320 with the help with the lever of digital comments in the EU to regain or digital sovereignty. 31:14.320 --> 31:19.920 So this is also why we wanted to have this talk. It was to make that clear, but we will for sure 31:19.920 --> 31:24.960 make all the improvements that you mentioned Leah and it's super important that we can really have 31:25.920 --> 31:32.800 a place to grab it. And we are late. So yeah, thank you for all your questions and you can come 31:32.800 --> 31:39.920 to Leah, Adita and me, for further discussions, we really would be happy to have them. Thank you. 31:48.960 --> 31:50.400 Thank you very much, Josh Speakers.